But people are likely to wonder why a determinist has radical beliefs at all, which he repeats ad nauseam, rather than say, speculating on where all these complex forces might be leading?Finally, a sharpened tongue. By the way dudettes and dudes, the comments section here has been especially piquant over the last coupla weeks. Good show, etc. You are more interesting than blogs and newspapers, that's for sure.
-A(n) Anonymous
Anyway, it's an interesting question, or a couple of them mashed-up as a reasonable question, and although I think the answers are easily found in the archives of this very web blog, I sort of want to answer. Now to an extent, asking why a determinist has radical beliefs is like asking why a Calvinist went to heaven. Har har. But, look: historical determinism doesn't deny individuality or individual agency; it doesn't even deny free will, although it perhaps snickers at most popular notions of free will as mere minor artifacts of a very particular culture. Each ticking second of your life is not written in advance, and the sum total of each will acting in this world in part makes the history that determines the circumstances in which each mind finds itself. There's a place for a just and moral life within an unjust, immoral, and impersonal world. Am I, as the commenter goes on to suggest, a religious man? Well, maybe I am really preaching about the deus absconditus. Yinz decide.
This is why I really like this whole Occupy dealio. As one eminent blurgher said, Occupy Wall Street is no revolution. I love their absence of a program and agenda, their lack of leaders and, at least to-date, their charmed indifference to calls on all sides for them to get such things. I think that packing a tent and sitting your ass down and not moving is just great. I think it's exactly what this country needs. I think that it is at heart and root a contemplative practice. I think those kids are transmitting the grace-waves of beneficence to the rest of humanity. I think that the very act of abjuring traditional activism is necessary and ingenious. I also think that Occupy, or something very much like it, would have inexorably occurred five years ago or ten years hence, one way or other; that this moment I so admire is both specific and inevitable. I'm jealous that I didn't dream it up. But the thing is: someone was certain to dream it up.
Anyhoo, as to where all these complex forces etc etc ad bloggiam are leading us, well, in my optimistic moments, I say a materially poorer (at least for those who are not materially poor) but altogether better and more local world. In most moments I say, toward extinction. They aren't mutually exclusive, by the way. The optimistic former is just a hopeful waystation on the road to the unavoidable latter.
78 comments:
As quoted in the piece by John Allen Gibel which you linked to:
Milarepa himself stated how the relationship between the layperson and the yogi renunciate was mutually beneficial. He sang:
The great yogin meditates in the rocky cave,
And benefactors bring him food.
These two interacting lead them together toward Enlightenment.
And the essence of this interaction lies in sharing merits.
Non-meat pizza toppings, such as green peppers, mushrooms, and olives, would presumably be preferred by some.
Lol WIN.
I love their absence of a program and agenda, their lack of leaders and, at least to-date, their charmed indifference to calls on all sides for them to get such things. I think that packing a tent and sitting your ass down and not moving is just great.
That's a rather rosy take on what they've been doing. At least in #Boston and #Seattle, anyway (all movements need hashtags). They've been drafting resolutions and forming subcommittees to determine whether the committee will table its motion to reconvene like any junior Student Congress.
I'm all for the virtues of indolence, but to say that these guys are "abjuring traditional activism" ... well, you might say the same of Congress for how little shit actually gets done in a session.
I think there is much hope to be found in extinction. Originality is rare if not impossible. While Castaneda’s books were fun to read he stole the idea of the importance of one’s death as a guide to life from the Masons. Someday the sun will swell and eat the Earth so I think the idea of enjoying life while you can is a good one. But if you cannot do that I suggest everyone where tinfoil hats to reflect the sun’s heat back at the sun thus staving off the inevitable.
I am also charmed by the impotence of OWS. That's how I like my left: active enough to keep the squares aware of what the left really is about, but utterly feckless. But they won't remain tame if they ever do get sufficent mass to evolve. We already know what their ideas are, and what their individual demands are. Bog-standard communism. That's not going to change. Events which happen during the workday draw those who want to live off the work of others.
In any case, I do not predict them to go anywhere. The left has gone about as far as it can go in this country. Most of the occupations will collapse with the winter. The remaining core of OWS will collapse when their radicalism proceeds far enough that they do something that is embarrassing to Democrats. This is an election year, and the liberal press will not stand for troublemakers who threaten the President's reelection.
True enough, Coldheart, although I'm a bit more sanguine about the Oaklanders--social vandalism of the General Strike variety is a nice touch.
I threw up a Facebook thread regarding the incident I had over the weekend where I was detained at a CVS because the door sensor went off and I refused to check my bag. Of course, since there was no probable cause for keeping me there and I ended up with a few bruises from trying to bum rush the guard and leave the store, several friends that suggested I get a lawyer and sue CVS. I don't think trying to squeeze some cash out of CVS, or even try and publicize the incident, would have done anything to change how shoplifting situations like this are handled. In my mind, I'd rather focus on everything else I have on my plate: my family, the job that I love, my health. No need to add a lawsuit to that.
It just felt good, in the midst of all these forces/laws/regulations beyond my control, to take a stand and rip into the security guard. When the cops came, it felt good to raise my voice to the point where they lost their own shit but really couldn't do anything because there were at least 5 camera phones (including mine) filming everything. It felt great yell, "see you later assholes. How does it feel to wake up every morning and instead of serving the people, serve a fucking chain store?" All the combined chain emails and links I've passed along to friends can't compare with this single, benign incident.
I don't think anything that I do in my life has a possibility to alter the inevitable course of history. I just think that living a good life, making a little art, and rightfully losing your shit in the face of pigheaded authority can never be a bad thing.
It's impossible to assess whether a society will ultimately fail miserablely or productively. I view free will, and how we act as individuals, as that single chromosomal difference that can drastically direct how things turn out.
Rambling. Sorry if this flew under anyone's heads.
"he stole the idea of the importance of one’s death as a guide to life from the Masons"
rob p -
As the sole agent for the estate of Marcus Aurelius, please note that I expect payment of the attached bill for royalties at your earliest convenience ...
what? no derisive howling "but what do we doooo?"
Wait for it, puppylander.
Extinction? The human species is too big to fail.
The Grays are working on some, ahem, austerity measures.
In my optimistic moments I imagine every child reading "The World Is Flat" and workers riding high speed, natural gas air trains to eco-buildings while productively performing tasks on their iPad 11's, so when they actually get to 'work' it's really just team building exercises. And everyone eats from tubes.
In the moments when I'm coming down from my MDMA, I imagine everyone growing old and being forced to grow old as part of some international competition between nations to see who can have the oldest population. Government agents forcibly putting us in giant techno-warehouses and hooking us up to machines that will keep our bodies alive enough for our hearts to beat, but there won't be enough oxygen to keep the brain functioning properly so we go into retardo-comas where we drift in and out of consciousness. That is if Iran doesn't get the bomb first!!!
Suleyman, son of David, estate representatives shall see you in court then. Sir.
Capt'n Obvious
Who are the Gray's? I hate when I don't get a reference! It makes me feel inferior. Great, now I'm cutting myself.
I admit, there's an admirable bravura in #Oakland's breaking into a foreclosed homeless shelter and reopening it by force. Fuck democracy: that's actual food in the bellies of actual human beings. There's also a sad, sweet irony in the cops kicking them out again. "Feed the indigent at your own expense? Not on my watch!"
I wonder why your belief in historical determinism leads to a gloomy conclusion like extinction. Why would historical forces produce a lot of complex activity at the expense of a lot of human suffering and vast amounts of nonrenewable resources -- only to produce a dead end?
,
for Paul Alexander, from Wikipedia
Grey aliens (or "Greys") are alleged extraterrestrial beings whose existence is promoted in ufological, paranormal, and New Age communities, named for their skin color.
Paranormal claims involving Greys vary in every respect including their nature (ETs, extradimensionals, demons, or machines), origins, moral dispositions, intentions, and physical appearances (even varying in their eponymous skin color). A composite description derived from overlap in claims would have Greys as small bodied, sexless beings with smooth grey skin, enlarged head and large eyes. The origin of the idea of the Grey is commonly associated with the Betty and Barney Hill abduction claim, although skeptics see precursors in science fiction and earlier paranormal claims.
AHA!!! Now I get the joke! Thanks Mistah Charley! But it's past it's shelf life and I'm going to have to throw it out. :(
It seems that Occupy Wall Street’s Structure Working Group is frothing over half a million dollars.
Eerily, Check's in the mail! Say hi to Mark, whoops, too late.
,no performing surgery while reading the comments on this bloog, .. .said fly saucer eyes.. . back to work .. . / ioz ,do dogs blurgher ..said sweetness .. .
Why would historical forces produce a lot of complex activity at the expense of a lot of human suffering and vast amounts of nonrenewable resources -- only to produce a dead end?
Entropy?
Who are you to say that I can't perform surgery while reading comments, Anne? Huh? Answer me! YOU ARE NOT MY STEP MOTHER!
i did mean.. fly .. . not flying .. i'm looking out and of seeing .. .not of moon dishes ..
i didn't mean you paul ..you are ..of smooth sailing .. while reading .. . .
Okay, I'm glad we got things ironed out. I would hate to lose the feelings we share.
,of the present,presence tense ...
i do think ioz is "religious".
i meant to acknowledge m.c.ph.d.'s morality links in the megathread but couldn't find an elegant way to link it to the ado. simply though, being kind to and respectful of others isn't doing nothing. it's something, and i think it's "religious". (non-explicit tie-in to m.c.ph.d.'s quest for happiness.) i think this is the sense in which mockery of whatdowedoers has never sat quite right with me--nevermind that derision seems to me to imply judgment, to imply a correct(er) act/behavior.
TENSE!!!
,puppy, i will say something of ..sitting away .. under a tree ..by a stump.. . from something of street spirit .. ,live .. ..in a while .. .
My Grandpa used to call dinosaurs "dinopsoriasis" and tell me stories about them that also involved Pablo Casals, Carlos Montoya and Machine Gun Kelly. I'm just saying that if he hadn't made that ridiculous pun, somebody else's Grandpa would have.
I think the whatdowedoers come in for 'comical exploration' when their whatdowedoness turns into, "Hey, I'm whatdowedoing, this means something!" when in actuality it's just a bunch of whining. If I complained about Loni Anderson divorcing Burt Reynolds, whatdowedoers would say that's irrelevant,that the concern is misplaced and should instead be about the poor and sick of Africa. But 'concern' on it's own has no force, so whether you cry about the dent on your Benz or the black dude unfairly being arrested, that moaning ain't getting either thing 'fixed'.
,i met a boy ..named kelly .. when i was wandering ..as i do .. . in a wooded .. at fourteen of these years here ,of my age ..i was .., .. .he lived in that wooded.. .
"If I complained about Loni Anderson divorcing Burt Reynolds, whatdowedoers would say that's irrelevant'
Far more likely they'd wonder why your cryogenicist woke you early ...
HAHAHAHAHA, Eerily! I'm still catching up on my celebrity news. Please tell me that Joanie still loves Chachi!
yes,paul, .. . of eerily ... and ..is that south of where you are and twice south of where i am .. .of love ,of chachi ? .... ,every ' thing in its right place .. . ,but try not to celebrate too much.. .of news.. .
This is the most charitable and promising interpretation of the Occupy movement I've heard yet. Some of the signs the media's shown them carrying ("Tax the Wealthy!") struck me as less promising.
The first question should be not what do we do but what do we not do. Tax resistance, whether by living a "poorer" non-taxable lifestyle and/or by participating in the underground economy, seems fundamental, but unfortunately many in the organized tax resistance movement are focused only on not paying for war, and are actually cheerleaders for government spending on things they think benevolent.
There's a place for a just and moral life within an unjust, immoral, and impersonal world.
But this is more The New IOZ, no? The old zoz would've just said he was here for the lulz.
If you want to frame this moralistically, then what is a just and moral life? This here blog's thesis seems to be: don't murther people or be an authoritarian dickhead. As counterproductive as many of their prescriptive ideas might be, the whatchagonnado's primary disagreement with you is that they extend the moral life to include the responsibility to actively fight the murdering dickheads. IOZ then responds that there's no way to stop The Evil Murderers, so why not have a laugh mocking people for trying. In that context, your historical determinism seems not only a lame cop out, but actively beneficial to The Evil Murderers, no?
Fight is an interesting word.
It's good to see someone fighting the good fight in the comments section of a blog! "God damn it, the tide was about to turn in favor of the righteous, Sauron only had 2 hit points left, but then IOZ made some snarky remark and the whole thing came tumbling down! LAUGH NOW ASSHOLE!"
Counterproductive is also an interesting word.
Loni Anderson to Wed First Love 45 Years Later
May 16th, 2008
Loni Anderson will soon walk down the aisle with the love of her life after a 45 years break. The 62 year old actress has reconnected with Bob Flick and will soon exchange wedding vows with her old flame.
Flick was a 24 year old bass player with The Brothers Four when Loni Anderson was a 17 year old Minnesota girl with a big crush. Anderson was doing some modeling while attending high school and apparently caught the eye of the older musician. The couple dated for 6 months and drifted apart – probably much to the relief of her parents.
Fate played a role in the couple reuniting after all these years. She looked him up when she was doing a charity event in his hometown. She immediately felt the same chemistry that had ignited her heart so many years ago.
The beaming bride, best known for her role in WKRP in Cinncinnati, will wed for the fourth time. One of her marriages was to Hollywood actor Burt Reynolds. Anderson is really revved up about reconnecting with Flick. She said:
”I should’ve married him 40 years ago — he was the one I should’ve married in the first place, so now I get my chance.”
The Brothers Four have been in business 47 years and are still performing.
Have y'all ever heard of hierarchy theory? It is all about the level of analysis yo!
Thanks Mistah Charley. I know Bob and he's going to take real good care of Loni. I couldn't be happier for two people. I do feel sorry for myself, though, as I wasn't invited despite the fact that I've been sending Loni Christmas cards/letters updating my current situation every year for 25 years! THIS IS HOW I FIND OUT?! Alas...
anon', 1:39, ..is it anything of ..jet streams .. . and nut crac kers ..,
oh ..that was ballet ..the the crac
did someone say capitulation?
The treetops nod
the rain applauds
The park grows dark
And the swings all slowly die
But you and I will be undefeated
by agreeing to disagree
No one wins but the thieves
so why side with anything
Fine, substitute "attempt to stop" for "fight" or whatever, maybe that's not even your point. Is the anarchist idea of "direct action" foolish? Why? Is it because you think history sez that the immoral always wins?
I should attempt to interpose my body, if that's what you're getting at.
"I think it's exactly what this country needs. I think that it is at heart and root a contemplative practice. I think those kids are transmitting the grace-waves of beneficence to the rest of humanity."
---
well i thought the steelers at home would beat the ravens sunday night.
,and of all of the heavenly of on and above .. .. . anne has larger lovely real breasts, of flesh and bone .. . and she/s'e is slender sweetness . .. .. for paul.. ., oh wait ..maybe he likes wigs .. small say ..darn .. .not wooly
I should attempt to interpose my body, if that's what you're getting at.
Nah, I don't care what you do. What I most wonder is why you seem to think it's foolish for those who want anarchy to attempt to achieve it. I understand the ridicule for activism, because it perpetuates authority. But why is direct action so bad? Why can't we support sabotage or tax refusal or the collective pooling of resources for such purposes? Is it merely because you think it's doomed to fail, or are there other reasons?
It is interesting that even when explained in the plainest of language some still can't reconcile the coexistence of determinism and agency.
As Heller oft quoted from Hegel, 'when philosophy paints, it's gray on gray'. Or, for a more recent analogy - only a Sith deals in absolutes.
No, large, lovely, real breasts and slender sweetness is right up my alley Anne! Wigs are cool too!
damn .. i don't have a wifg ..wig .. pussy on top okay ? paul..
HEY NONY DID YOU SEE THIS POAST
Deference to constituted authority is vice. A concerted effort at noncooperation is the duty of every free-thinking person. I advocate no orthodoxy in this approach. Some of you don't pay income tax, and some don't pay parking tickets. These are equally valid. Avoid cops, and when they're unavoidable, answer only in yesses and nos. Drive slowly in the passing lane (as recently advocated by my friends at SMBIVA). Underreport your income. Disobey as many laws as you reasonably can. Commit minor crimes against public property. Buy drugs. Live your fucking lives.
IOZ: "[S]ocial vandalism of the General Strike variety is a nice touch."
Some Anonymous: "But why is direct action so bad? Why can't we support sabotage or tax refusal or the collective pooling of resources for such purposes? Is it merely because you think it's doomed to fail, or are there other reasons?"
Aaaaaaannnnnnnnd scene.
Yes, pussy on top would be just fine.
What's going on here???
So Monsieur, you're saying sabotage and tax refusal and collective pooling for such resources falls under the category of social vandalism of general strike variety? I just don't see it!
A dick, man! And let me tell you something: I dig your work. Playing one side against the other, in bed with everybody, fabulous stuff, man.
Yinz fault were mistaking the Wizard of Ioz fer a drakon when all hims e'er been is an agin' queen.
Oh Anne, you little imp.
WELL FUCK ME THEN. Clearly, I haven't been following along closely enough. Those pro-direct action posts must be few and far fucking between. I guess I always conflated the anti-watchagonnado sentiment so regularly on display here with a general disdain for every kind of action against authority.
People look to me and say
Is the end near, when is the final day
What's the future of mankind
How do I know, I got left behind
Everyone goes through changes
Looking to find the truth
Don't look at me for answers
Don't ask me - I don't know
How am I supposed to know
Hidden meanings that will never show
Fools and prophets from the past
Life's a stage and we're all in the cast
Ya gotta believe in someone asking me who is right,
Asking me who to follow, don't ask me, I don't know,
I don't know - I don't know - I don't know
Nobody ever told me I found out for myself
Ya gotta believe in foolish miracles
It's not how you play the game
It's if you win or lose you can choose
Don't confuse win or lose, it's up to you
It's up to you - it's up to you - it's up to you
Shivering your timbers this afternoon anne?
But a more "local" world means that I would have to drink cough syrupy California wine instead of cheap Bordeaux. No fair!
Brian - I'll make you and everyone else a deal... Let's all pitch in money on a plot of land in southern France and start a winery/dairy/fruit farm. We can all tend it, among other things. Ioz can cook for us. We can live high on the hog and have engrossing & riotous wine filled exchanges every night - and be somewhat self sustaining to boot.
Save traveling the world endlessly playing music every night, I can't imagine a better life.
I hate to type. Especially on this tiny phone keyboard, so I usually just pee on the hydrant with my brief mal mots. I may have to extend a bit in ref. to this post. A brief tweet in support of the small #gazaflotilla was expunged by the non "leadership" "leadership" of #ows because it didnt meet consensus. The original tweet wasnt an 'official' account and all due dilligence was taken in pointing this out. I am firmly in the "wtf!?? You need consensus to oppose evil" camp. This also leads me to strangely agree with @Leonard on some points. I have kept a healthy cynicism for this movement, even though am fully supportive of the sentiment. I am usually sort of distrustful of movements that fetishize non violence, and am not to crazy about hippies in general, but this is neither here nor there. Im just wondering what your thoughts are on this. It seems as if this particular #occupy does not want to alienate the large genocidal maniac contingent that reside hereabouts.
D - based on that article linked upthread, I wonder if the newly christened 'Spokes' group had anything to do with that vote... It would seem that a small group is slowly taking over the running of the show.
Here's my take on your post, IOZ
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